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« DEMOCRATISER LA CULTURE INDIENNE | Main | INDIAN ENGLISH LANGUAGE »

02/02/2005

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Enjoyed this article im from Pakistan myself are those in Stlucia of Indian descent Muslims or Hindus just wandering

Enjoyed this article what about all the Stlucian's of African descent can we have an article about them

The Boriel's came from Calcutta and changed their name from Boariee in the sixties i guess to a more french name.They were originally cooliees {cheap Indian labour} and were escaping the slums of Calcutta a famous slum city.They would have originally been Hindu's.Once the coolies entered Stlucia they worked alongside freed African slaves however would of got paid in land thus becomming Landowners. I hope this information is of use to you if you want you can go back to the brith and names registrations of StLuica also of the British for those of is colonies to see their name change .I hope this of use to you

im a pakistani in london do anyone of sub-indian decent keep to their religion fo Islam hindu or skihism?

Does anyone in Stlucia speak African Do the Indians know or speak Hindi or prunjabi.

Thats is very true most Stlucians i would say 99 percent are of West African decent but most have lost their history and do not know where they came from.Some have a very misguided sence through the rastifarian scene that origianted from Jamaica that they are from Ethopia .However Ethopian people look totally different to West Africans and are more mixed between Arab and African besides Britain,France never colonised it.Most Stlucians should be taught their history and that they originate from Nigeria,Congo Chad etc

The majority of Stlucians are of African decent.It is widely regarded that they originate from the Ibo tribe in Nigeria. about 90 percent of Stlucians are West African decent 5 percent mixed race 4 percent white and 1 percent Indian.There are very few Indians in Stlucia and the ones that are there are mostly related to each other and live in their own sort of communities.Think we should also have another article on the Carib Indians of the Carribean if they still exist and those of Nigerian decent that are makes up most of the population of Stlucia any thoughts?

Does anyone know how to contact the author of this informative, insightful piece? I have some information for him concerning some of the persons he named in this article.

I enjoyed readings these postings. I am writing a book: "Indian Diasora: Grandparents and Grandparenting" is the tentative title. I will like someone interested in this topic to write a chapter for this book represting the role of diasporic grandparents in families living in St.Lucia Thank you in advance.Please write to me or contact me by e-mail You can find more information about me on Google.
Amarjit Singh
Professor
Faculty of Education
Memorial University
St. John's,
Newfoundland
Canada A1B 3X8
e-mail

Yes this is true, Almond, everyone is st.lucia can trace someone in the family who is a shabin, mixed with indian, a little white here and there.

We are all one, i am dark skinned but my grandfather was almonst white along with his family, i am black and some family members are mixed, we are all one some indian there, some carib there so what.

Let us live togher in peace.

After all these years of being posted online... I only get to discover this blog :s
I could barely remember my great grandfather... used to call him as Daddy Sheriff... and in return he use to call us Baba... May he rest in peace... he worked he's whole life... You will always be remembered and appreciated. R.I.P Daddy Sheriff/

Kimani,

The blog is inactive because all the contributors have moved to different sites. In St. Lucia, we are currently working on Indo-St. Lucian awareness, Primarily focusing on educating St. Lucians especially Indians about our heritage, contributions, and building networking skills among various Indian villages throughout the island. So, the torch is still burning and more are coming to the light.

Thanks.

Hello everyone. I don't know if this blog is dead as I hadn't seen anything posted in a while. Well here goes. I had the most curious experience about two weeks ago when I met a young American Engineering Student of European descent from Missouri. He had been befiended by another American friend of mine from California and invited to join us for drinks at our flat.

I was out when he arrived and as I was entering the building my friend from California sent me a text asking if I wanted to order take out from our favourite Indian take-away. However by that time I was already upstairs and inside. My Californian friend made short introductions and then we began to look at the take away menu. this would begin one of the most perplexing, if disturbing experiences I have had in my life.

when we began to order I chose what I was ordering and then was looking at side dishes and this engineering student proceeded to tell me 'wow you really know your Indian food well' then shocked at why he seemed to be surprised at that i quickly informed him in a reprimanding tone that the Caribbean is indeed over 25% of South Asian origin. I stopped short at telling him of my own ancestry lest I confuse his black/white American brain. Then I calmly began to guide him through the menu, informing him that the roti(just the flat bread) in England is really bad and very dry...at nay rate by Caribbean standards as alot of the food in England is made by Bangladeshi's who are from a different cultural region from the people who are descendants of 'Indians' in tha Caribbean. So much for intellectual discussions about the taste of roti.

But my friends this was only the first affront to my Caribbean identity and my Caribbean people and I consider all Caribbean people my people. Further on in the evening he asked why it was called the Caribbean and I explained to him that it is named so for the Carib or Kalinago people who are the indigenous people of the region and related to the indigenous people of north and south ammerica. I explained that these people were almost completely exterminated by European both in the islands and on the mainland. To whihc I got the most shockign answering fo my life. 'but didn't the europeans put them on reservations because there weren't engough of them'. To which my response was No!!!!! they were exterminated by the Europeans 90% of the peoples of the Americas's were exterminated by Eruopeans. My God!!! Is this the rubbish that passes for history in American highschools.

However my sister's stories should have better informed my interactions with Americans. She is an English tutor and postgraduate student in English at Purdue University and had previously gone to university in Oklahoma. She explained to me that history books in Oklahoma told students that Africans came to the Americas voluntarily. poppycock...hogwash

so I guess I should not have expected any different. The lesson is for Caribbean people that not everyone is as historically aware as we are.

HI ALL,
I JUST CAME BACK FROM A TOUR OF ''MOTHER INDIA''
I HAPPENED ON THIS SITE ACCIDENTALLY AS MY DAUGHTER,
MARIA GHIRAWOO TYPED IN A TITLE REARCH ''GHIRAWOO''.
ALL I CAN TELL YOU AND ADVISE YOU ALL RIGHT NOW, IS TO
STOP THE FIGHTING! WE ONLY DEMONSTRATE THE FRUSTRATIONS
DEPRESSIONS;AND RACIST SENTIMENTS LEFT US BY THESE WICKED AND GREEDY EUROPEANS WHO HAVE EXPLOITED OUR FOR-
PARENTS FOR TIME IMMEMORIAL.
SO BY FIGHTING AMOUNGING OURSELVES WE ARE STILL LETTING THEM WIN AND OPPRESS US AS THEY DID OUR FOR-
FATHERS, THOUGH WE ARE BORN IN A FREE AND MODERN AGE!
IN INDIA AS WELL AS IN AFRICA, TO THIS DAY, WE CAN STILL SEE THE FRIENDLINESS OF THESE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES
THAT IS WHY THE GREEDY EUROPEANS COULD WALK RIGHT IN TO
THESE COUNTRIES; CULTURES AND KIND CIVILIZATIONS AND
JUST TAKE OVER; ABUSE AND RAPE THESE COUNTRIES AS THEY
FORCEFULLY STOLE EVERYTHING FROM THESE GREAT CIVILIZATIONS- ESPECIALLY THERE PEOPLE!
SO PLEASE STOP THE FIGHTING!!!

THANK YOU.
GOD IS LOVE.
PETER[BENNY]GHIRAWOO

Louis Boriel to all, Daddy Sherrif to us... I never knew the details but always knew my grandfather was a great man who accomplished great things from very humble beginnings.

oh my gosh i didn't know that about my grand father louis boriel

hi kimani
wha gone
Where u disappear to girl?

I just had someting else to add.

Filling out a form in the UK and looking at all the racial classifications I was quite surprised that someone had divided the humanity of England into such broad groups. I declined to fill in that part of the form as it did not have any racial group that I fell into completely. Alot of people like me put Black Caribbean to get the matter over with. As I do not consider that to be my only heritage and to look at me, clearly it is not, I declined.

I also declined because as a Caribbean person you're generally not asked to fill out your race on a form. I've always assumed that unnecessary. When confronted with this I was somewhat perplexed as I have never had to classify myself before.

Growing up I was always reminded of my multi-cultural back-ground so it never occured to me that I had to choose a side, I was happily a product of Caribbean history. I still don't comprehend the need for such kinds of forms.

The only time I ever filled out such a question in St. Lucia was at census time where I put mixed...but there was still no category to define me.

I have just demonstrated how confusing it is to be from the Caribbean when the majority of the world elsewhere is still rigidly split up along racial lines.

In no way is the Caribbean perfect...but its as close as the world has ever come to a racially harmonious society. The strife of genocide, slavery and indenture have produced a remarkable dignity on such matters in the Caribbean. This has occured to me as I an watching the election debates about immigration in the UK and realise the deep seated racialism and xenophobia in this country. It has taught me to appreciate my society and to work to make sure it does not slip off course in recognising every culture that makes up its various societies.

However as you said we have a long way to go and we need to un-earth the dirty past and claim it.
Despite the happy-go-lucky disposition of most Caribbean people I have never had the impression that we were a society that hid the truth. I think we are quite good at calling them as we see it and discussing difficult topics with no hard feelings, as this little exchange proves.

I also think that lack of education in large portions of our societies has prevented the public from voicing their concerns about such issues. Simply they do not have the tools...and fundamental healing and renewal in a society comes from the masses not from politicians, academics or powerful businessmen...although undoubtedly they can help.

However, I am an eternal optimist and I do see good things on the Horizon for the Caribbean. Now, if we could only sort out CARICOM to reap the benefits and take our tails out from between our legs on the issue of Haiti, maybe things could be closer to what we want them to be.

Bye....have to work on my essay

Not sure about Coolie Rd. so I can't comment.

I do know of a community in Vieux-Fort whose name was changed to Bruceville on a vote from the community after the government had completed a poverty reduction scheme of community building in that area. Clearly as I know many St. Lucian Indians know little of their heritage and would not come up with an Indian name on their own if it were not suggested by someone in authority.

Webmaster note : the rest of the comments is here
http://cqoj.typepad.com/chest/2005/04/indian_culture_.html

You say:

Also Diwali was still to be seen in places such as Dennery in the 70's and early eighties.

What happened to it ???

Why did they change the name of Coolie Road, NOT to give it an indian name ???

Is this the way we respect our diversity ???

Albert Hall.

Dear Kimani,

I appreciate your commenting on this blog.

Mr Latchana who lives in North America allowed me to publish his article and as you can see it tells his experience... of 1995 !

We are in 2005! Things have positively evolved for sure since, as you are insisting, however there must have been some reasons for Martin's writings at the time.

You can rest assured that, AFAIK, he is as much of a happy Caribbean person as you and I, so in a way you are preaching converts!

The Caribbean is definitely, ideally supposed to be what you say. Just as definitely, if you know your roots, your origins, your past history and what your ancestors had to go through, positive and negative, and provided it can be freely expressed and acknowledged instead of having to be hidden or threatened to be brushed away, you can better contribute to the edification of a multicultural society that agrees to create a novative culture.

As Caribbean people have been able to learn better than anyone else, the biological processes of ethnic blending represses or shuns no particular feature, texture, grain or hair type, but continue to protect all of them while creating more, making them playfully hide and reappear in the course of generations.

How beautiful indeed, the natural laws of genetics.

In the same way, the diversity of our Caribbean cultural garden has to keep improving the hospitable way it takes into account all of its composing ingredients.

We are certainly heading towards this understanding, away from the limiting view (which many european foreigners still have, in part due to the failure of school textbooks and media representation) that we are just an afro-west indian society.

This vison could have, in the past, but no so long ago in some cases, made indians in Guadeloupe, Martinique, St Lucia, St Vincent and Grenada sometimes feel they were rejected by some innocently ignorant types of their own country's people, or considered marginal, or made to feel bad because, for instance, of not being of african origin.

Yoou will admlit that indians of the islands just mentioned have joined the ranks of those who fight for the recognition of slavery as a crime against humanity. But how many of african origin, and how many indians themselves know the details of the history of indian indenture and the crimes committed against them by the same plantation oppressors in the same fields ?

We must be considerate and attentive instead of feeling a rage when any part of the whole, in particular the minor elements, expresses an experience.

Different experiences belong to different people - between the descendants of the white colonizer, the african slave, the indian indentured, the chinese, the lebanese, or others, not forgetting the Arawaks and Caribs...

Being a mix of 2 or more of these is yet another experience that another person is not necessarily able to comprehend.

Everybody is in their own shoes and no foot crushing can be allowed.

The variety of histories must be known of all, just as the interaction's good and evil experiences need to be shared.

All sharing deserves respect, if not compassion.

So, a sense of equanimity and tolerance that is truly Caribbean needs to be worked at intelligently and dispassionately among many west indians.

Hiding some shadowy aspect of the past makes no sense if we are to live together harmoniously.

As life and courage bring along hope and healing, this blog endeavours to be part of the process.

You are invited to let go of that one aspect, explore other parts of it, and do leave your comments on it.

Respectfully yours,

J.S. Sahai
Guadeloupe


You might be interested to know that when 'Jounen Kweyol' Creole Day is celebrated in St. Lucia an integral part of the celebrations in communities with large Indian populations is the re-enactment of Hindu Weddings and other Indian festivals. Some of my friends at college used to participate. In St. Lucia Creole Day is a day to celebrate all the cultures that came togehter during our difficult past.Also Diwali was still to be seen in places such as Dennery in the 70's and early eighties. My mother is from that community but is of Native Amerindian, African and European descent.

I would also like to ask why is there such a theme about shame of Indian Culture on this page. Growing up in St. Lucia I never felt any shame about this. The only thing is that our colonial past had destroyed most of the remembrances of Native Amerindian, Indian and Black culture (it is not just Indian Culture)and so we celebrated what little we had. However new migrations from india, the indigenous peoples of the americas trust and the Folk research centre are trying fill the gaps of lost culture of the three groups I mentioned.

The traditional view of Idians a poor and ignorant as long been shatterd in St. Lucia as a number have long taken their place among the island's elite. You will also find many St. Lucians that an observer will describe as Black with Indian names particularly, Kangal, Sammie, Caroo and so on.

I have only been to Guadeloupe once and do not know much about how cultures are observed and treated. I do know that the French culture is dominant and that must be frustrating for non-european groups in the society.

I look forward to more informative comments such as yours.

Oh,

I do know many of the people Mr. Latchna mentioned in his article particularly Mrs. Heraldine Rock. I interviewed her many times in my days as a journalist. One more thing, the St. Lucia Minister of Culture and Social Transformation is of Indian descent and is also a woman.


If you missed the comment that the Caribbean is a complex place. That means that there exist many races and many people who are a mixture of those races.

One Caribbean does not mean disregarding races or mixtures thereof. It means noting that the all these cultures make one people with a history of co-existence and survival. No matter your race in the "West Indies" you are still from the Caribbean and you still share a heritage and a history with those races who exist alongside you.

On the contrary to your comment about shame I come from a country where there is nothing shameful about being of Indian descent. As no one where I am from is ashamed of these things and such racial hang-ups are not a part of my experience. Do you have these hang-ups, is that a part of you society.

You see the biggest mistake we make when writing about these issues is to assume that everyone with a similarity to ourselves has the same experience no matter what country they are from, which is a very limited and misguided view.

I am indeed sorry that you had to stoop to such a comment. I accept and revel in my history and the different races that came together to create the person I am today, physically and culturally. No matter what race I am I am a St. Lucian. I would be interested to know if you wanted Caribbean countries to separate their communities into racial societies.

I really feel sorry for some of us in the Caribbean who continue to try to preach divisiveness. It is clear you have a skewed concept of the Caribbean and have bought into the media hype. I will continue to hope that Caribbean people use their diversity as a glue to hold their societies together and celebrate their many heritages without resorting to this sort of divisiveness. This is rather unfortunate but I will hope.

Guadeloupe, too, as well as Martinique (colonized by theFrench like StLucia) had to go through this process, from humiliation and rejection to recognition.

We finally made ourselves acknowledged and respected for what our ancestors brought to their adopted land as original and positive contributions in so many fields: culinary, aesthetic, economic, literary, spiritual, artistic, etc.

It was also necessary to admit officially that the Euro-Christian system had obliterated the belief system and the cultural landmarks of the Indian population, thus depriving them of much of their self-esteem.

Since the colonizer knew how to divide in order to reign, and since the Indians had arrived in places where the abolition of slavery had left the Blacks bleeding in their bodies and souls, the Indians, who could not communicate due to the language barriers and did not understand the historical context of their implantation, were openly or subtly rejected by the Blacks.

However, they remained Indian in their philosophy an attitudes, not reacting violently and eventually collaborating with the Blacks in the evolution of a distinct Creole society.

All this process has remained veiled by the school system, young Indians having been brought up and educated together with the Blacks under a European education system that even more than the history of the Blacks, left the history of the Indian immigration and the description of their original cultural traits in total oblivion.

My feeling is that St Lucia is only starting this process which should lead to the recognition of Indian presence and contribution within a genuine harmonious multi-racial and multi-cultural country, a place where the respect of differences will be considered an asset instead of confusing diversity with a meli-melo and the predominance of one group and western culture.

This part of the Caribbean people's history has to be fearlessly unveiled and courageously brought to the awareness of everyone in the country.

The traditional Indian way is definitely the way to go, by showing both the (mostly) ignorant Indians and the (sometimes) arrogant blacks (even more) patience and courtesy in the process.

The Guadeloupe model and its proponents are there to help.

J.S. Sahai, with the kind help of B.R. Cheddie and J.S. Wilkins.

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